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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  August 11, 2010 10:00pm-12:00am EDT

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>> time now for "ac 360." >> texas politicians claiming illegal aliens are raising terror babies. two texas lawmakers say it's happening and said they heard it from ex-fbi agents. tonight we're keeping them honest, asking for evidence and talking directly to the fbi. also tonight, the ground zero mosque battle and beyond. protesters say don't build it near hallowed ground, but as you'll see, there's growing pressure all across the country not to build any mosque anywhere. what's happening to freedom of religion in this country. we'll talk to a christian minister who leads protests outside mosques, plus, crime and punishment. the search for a serial killer who police say is targeting his victims by skin color and luring them to their doom by pretending he needs help. new developments in the manhunt tonight. and we'll take you up close a see how kids see race, an eye open. we'll talk to one little girl who says her own skin cole zor nasty and how her parents are dealing with that revelation.
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we begin with keeping them honest. one of the most stunning claims made in the battle of illegal immigration. the claim made by texas republican lawmakers that illegal immigrants are having babies here, raising them overseas as terrorists so that they can return here 20 years from now and attack them. call it the terror baby conspiracy. in a moment, you'll hear from a former high-ranking fbi official about this idea, but first let's just show you where we think this thing started. this is congressman gomer, and here is what he said on the floor of the united states congress. >> i talked to a retired fbi agent who said that one of the things that we're looking at were terror cells overseas who had figured out how to game our system, and it appeared they would have young women who became pregnant, would get them into the united states to have a ba baby. they wouldn't even have to pay anything for the baby, and then they would return back where they could be raised and coddled
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as future terrorists, and then one day 20, 30 years down the road, they could be sent in to help destroy our way of life because they figured out how stupid we are being in this country. >> he said that on the floor of the house, congressman gohmert said the source was a former fbi agent. he offered no proof, no evidence, and later changed some of the details in the story actually and went on tv and said he first learned this from a hamas-loving grandmother he met on a plane in the middle east. today we called the congressman's office to ask for information backing up the claim, the name of the former fbi agent, for instance, or any evidence whatsoever that this actually is happening or something the fbi is looking into, as he claimed the former fbi agent said. we also invited him on program. his press secretary told us he was unavailable, and could not be reached for comment. the invitation stands. he's not the only texas lawmaker, though, making this argument. we were surprised last night on "360" when republican representative debby riddle came
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on the program to debate the topic of immigration in general and talked about, basically, the exact same thing. she was responding to one of her democratic colleagues and take a listen to what she said. representative, you said pregnant people are coming here as tourists and having babies and going back home with a new fairious purpose of turning them into little terrorists who will then come back to the u.s. and us harm. you said it's part of an organized terror element and could cost us lives. where did you hear that? >> that is information that is coming to my office from former fbi officials. >> what sort of evidence is there to have american babies born here and raised as terrorists overseas and then come back here? >> well, at this point i don't have the hard evidence right here in front of me. however, this is something that is being talked about by various
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members of congress. this is being looked into. this is an issue with not only folks coming across our southern border, with what is called anchor babies and coming over for the entitlement programs, and for that sort of thing, but i think this is a lot more sinister issue. all of these issues we need to look at because this is a critical, critical issue for all of the american public. >> but you have no actual evidence. >> other than that coming from former fbi folks. >> can you tell us who these former fbi folks are, what evidence they have or what evidence they have shown you? >> at this point i'm not going to reveal that. >> i mean, if this is a real threat to the security of the united states, why wouldn't current fbi people be worried about it as well? i mean, why wouldn't this actually be -- >> you know what? that is a real good question because right now we have
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serious current threat that the government seems to be ignoring, and ignoring on our southern border. >> but they haven't told you any actual evidence, right? so it's -- you say some former fbi agents have talked to your office. have they given your office actual facts or proof? >> that information we are still gathering. >> i mean, you've made statements about these basically terror babies being raised overseas to be brought back here. i'm just asking for proof. you say you -- you are still gathering it from -- from unnamed former fbi people. >> well, actually when your folks called me in the preliminary, that was part of the conversation. they did not tell me that you were going to grill me for the specific information that i was not ready to give to you tonight. they did not tell me that, sir. >> okay. well, if you do have follow-up information, we'd love to get it. >> i don't real consider that a grilling, by the way.
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i thought that was more of a conversation. when someone gets grilled, they tend to know it. again, no proof offered. keeping them honest. we called representative riddle's office for more information on her claims or any shred of evidence. we were told someone from riddle's staff would call us back. they have not. of course, we welcome the call any time in the future. you may think that politicians who are concerned about this over national security, as i'm sure they are and say they are being tipped off by former fbi agents, would you think that they would actually contact the fbi to check on this. apparently they have not, because we did check with the fbi today and they completely knocked the claim down. an official told us the agency does not have any credible evidence that this is happening. so, all right then. we thought, well maybe, maybe they just don't want to tell us because they are currently fbi rabies, and since this information is allegedly coming from former fbi agents we should be checking with them, and that we're happy to say has worked out pretty well because cnn tom fuentes is the former director
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of international operations from 2004 to 2008 and joins us now. tom, you oversaw fbi offices in some of the biggest terror hot spots. have you ever come across any evidence of these terror babies or anything like this? >> no, anderson, never. that includes the fbi has 75 offices overseas, including offices in jordan, turkey, israel, saudi arabia, yemen, pakistan. there was never a credible report or any report, for that matter, coming across through all the various mechanisms of communication to indicate that there was such a plan for these terror babies to be born. also, i'd like to add, there seems to be a lot of former fbi agents lurking in the halts of congress and in the legislature in the state of texas, so i'm kind of curious about that issue as well. >> is there any likelihood that this could happen? does it make any sense whatsoever, the idea that 20 years from now they have some
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sort of plan to get kids in? i mean, frankly, it's not that hard to get u.s. citizens to attack the united states, it appears. >> that's exactly right. it's not hard to get u.s. citizens. not only that, director muller has spoken out many times publicly against the visa waiver program which means that anyone holding a european passport can come to the united states. they are six hours away by air from new york or washington and do not require a u.s. visa, so they not only can recruit u.s. citizens as we've seen in plot after plot or people that are already in the united states like zazi, shahzad, the times square bomber, many of the other grouped, abdulmutallab who came here on a u.s. visa from nigeria, but also any of these european radicalized terrorists can fly here without a visa any time, so the idea that they would somehow grow terrorist babies from the ground up is ludicrous. not only that, but i think you'd
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have the fbi pushing to create some type of a no pre-school list or something to address these terrible babies. >> no pre-school list, yeah. do you think if a member of congress is really -- really believes this, you would assume that they would call the fbi. if a member of congress called the fbi with this theory saying they had heard this from a former fbi agent, would the fbi inform that congress person that they knew nothing about it or they don't think there's any legitimacy to that? >> i think so. in this case i think the fbi has knocked this story down completely, officially, unofficially. i think at first they didn't want to comment on it just because they didn't want to lend any credence to the people spreading it, but realized that there has to be some comment or else the no comment, you know, means there might be some secret classified information out there, but there is no credible information about this particular aspect, and something else i caught in your interview
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of debbie riddle where she says a former fbi agent informed her office. what does that mean? they talked to a receptionist? they talked to a janitor? you don't talk to an office. if an fbi agent was going to brief someone about a sensitive matter of potential terrorism, they will not talk to anybody but the elected official himself or herself. just that statement that somehow this was reported to the office, you know, is suspicious to me. >> the other thing that she says is that she's still gathering information, that her office is still gathering information on the facts behind it. you would think the first place they would gather information was at actual fbi, and as you said, if they actually do call the fbi, they would be told this is absolutely completely not true so -- >> last i checked the fbi is in the phone book, so i think she could get ahold of them. >> hopefully they will call the fbi if they are not willing to call us. tom fuentes, appreciate your expertise. let us know what you think. join the live chat at ac360.com.
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the kind of birth tourism that is happening because we met one of the families involved in it. who is really coming into the country to have kids and why. and then the controversy over the mosque not only at ground zero but across the country. it has vitamin d, which emerging science suggests supports breast health, and calcium for bone health. centrum ultra women's. built with quality and backed with the best coverage in america including a 100,000 mile powertrain warranty. that's 40,000 more miles than ford. chevy silverado half-ton. a consumers digest best buy and the most dependable, longest lasting full-size pickups on the road. now get 0% apr for 72 months on 2010 silverado half-ton models with an average finance savings around $5,800. i'm going to own my own restaurant.
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. up close tonight we've been reporting on the calls from some lawmakers to change the 14'd amendment which grants automatic citizenship to anyone born in the united states, including the kids of illegal immigrants. according to new analysis by the pew hispanic center, an estimated 340,000 of the more than 4 million babies born in the united states in 2008 were the offspring of unauthorized immigrants. no accurate figures on how many illegal immigrants come here pregnant or with the intention of giving birth. we also learn about women who come here legally on tourist visas for the express purpose of giving birth. the family you're about to meet freely admits that's exactly what they did. here's gary tuchman.
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>> hi. >> reporter: but the looks of them, you would never know this mother and son are at the heart of a national debate. they have both lived in mexico their whole lives, but while 26-year-old lupit and her husband are mexican citizens, 3-year-old hector is a u.s. citizen. >> translator: i made a decision to have my child born in the united states. i wanted him to have dual citizenship so one day if he moves to the united states he will not have any problems. >> reporter: lupita, who did not want her last name used, is well aware of the u.s. constitution's 14th amendment which declares all persons born in the u.s. are citizens, and she admits she came to texas on a tifrt visa while pregnant specifically to give birth to a u.s. citizen. >> translator: one day we might have to immigrate to the united states, and i would like my child to be able to take full advantage of his rights and be able to stay in the united
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states. >> reporter: hector was born at this public hospital in fort worth where officials tell us an average of 70% of births are to undocumented mothers, 70%. immigration attorneys say the 14th amendment is very well known to legal and illegal visitors alike. >> a lot of people sacrifice themselves and say okay, at least my child if they are born in the united states is almost guaranteed a better life than mine. >> reporter: lupta's 3-year-old son may never permanently live in the united states. officially though he's as american as any american citizen, but notably u.s. immigration officials are permitted to stop pregnant women from entering the country if they feel they are coming here just to have a baby. did you tell the border people i'm here to have a baby? would you have told them that, or would you have been afraid to say that? >> translator: i only told my family. i did not tell the immigration officer. i hid my appearance to get my entry permit into the united states. >> reporter: hector and his
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mother are in fort worth this week to visit extended family. she's using the same tourist veegsa that was in effect when she gave birth to hector. the 14'dality amendment, she believes, guarantees all children are equal. some day would you like your son to help you become a u.s. citizen? he'll be able to do that when he's an adult? >> translator: well, yes. i don't know what's going to happen in the future, but if we're doing badly in mexico and we have to emigrate, why not. >> reporter: lupita hopes to have another child, and says she'll likely do it the same way, as long as she still has the 14th amendment to rely on. gary tuchman, cnn, fort worth, texas. >> from who is an american, the 14th amendment and freedom of speech. the 1st amendment. we'll talk to a man who leads protests outside mosques and a best selling author.
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well, the battle over that
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islamic center and mosque several blocks from ground zero in new york picked up pace today. come on over to the board. a conservative blogger came up with the idea as a private group supporting it. on the left, a picture of one of the twin towers with the plane about to hit it. on the right over here, this is an image of the proposed islamic center, islamic symbol there and the big question why there? why have an islamic center, a mosque, so close to ground zero in the bus service originally refused to put the signs up, but they announced today that they would be appearing on buses in new york very soon. just to give you, again, a sense of where this site s.two blocks away from the old wachovia center -- world trade center site. today the planners turned down an office from new york's governor of state property elsewhere to build an islamic center. another development as well. we learned today that the imam who will be head of this center
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is being sent by the united states state department overseas to talk to muslims overseas about muslim life here in america, so the -- the u.s. government may not have any doubts about this imam, but apparently a lot of other people do. clearly american people not so sure. new polling tonight, 68% oppose putting the center and mosque near ground zero. just 29% favor it. we're going to talk with fareed zakaria about the controversy coming up. opposition not to just this mosque in particular but to any mosque in america. take a look at some of the images we've been seeing now over the last couple of weeks. staten island, new york, a local catholic church rejected plans to sell a vacant convent to a muslim group after outcries there. there were demonstrations here. california, members of a local tea party group picking a mosque that's seeking to build a new worship center on a nearby vacant lot. this is murphysboro, tennessee, protesters marching against a muslim center after a local political candidate accused of it secretly pursuing a radical
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agenda. some saying islam is not a religion but just an ideology. in gainesville, local picketers protesting a mosque and they will have a local koran burning in september. one of the demonstrators here at a local mosque. the local mosque is asking for protection. ramadan, after a texas-based group called operation save america protested there saying islam is a lie. in a moment we'll talk to the leader of the connecticut protest about why he was protesting at this mosque. all of the groups' right to protest islam is protect in the u.s. constitution, the bill of rights, freedom of speech, but so is the right of muslims to pray and express their faith, freedom of religion. here it is, of course, just in case we need to be reminded. first amendment, congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof or abridging the freedom of speech. it's not this religion or that religion or christian faith or popular faiths, it says
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religions, period and continues abridging the freedom of speech, period, not just the speech a majority can agree on or the speech that's popular. in the first amendment protected the popular and non-controversial we wouldn't need a first amendment in the first place. with us now, the reverend benham, president of operation save america and best selling author bruce filer whose works include "america's prophet" and "walking the bible." i understand you don't like islam. their beliefs are against your beliefs, but in this country doesn't everybody has the right to worship and hold the religion beliefs that they want? >> i don't think there's any question about that, but what we do have is a battle over truth. islam says that jesus didn't die on a cross. islam says that jesus wasn't raised from the dead. islam says that jesus isn't god. we have a diametrical problem
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here. islam is a lie from the pit of hell, and we need to be able to speak that truth from the corners and the streets and the highways and biways. >> no one is contesting your right to what you believe is the truth, but why protest a mosque in connecticut that hasn't done anything wrong? there's not some terror plot that you've uncovered. >> i understand exactly what you're talking about, and what's the problem with us not -- we're not protesting anything. we're proclaiming the truth, that jesus christ is the way, the truths and the life and no one comes to the father but by him. >> would it be all right did you. >> and we're going to say that. >> would it be all right if muslims came to your house of worship routinely and yelled at you and said you were promoting a lie and all sorts of things? >> they came to my country and smashed into the trade towers and killed almost 3,000 people. they crashed into the pentagon building. >> you see it as extreme and terrorists. i'm asking. do you see a difference. >> islam is not just --
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>> i'm asking, do you see a difference. >> islam is not a -- >> you won't say. >> yes, i will, if you let me. the problem is that islam is not just a religion. it is a political ideology that demands and forces its dogma down our throat. >> not for all muslims. not for all muslims. there are some extremists muslims who do believe -- political islam -- >> let me say i'm talking about islam. >> american citizens here are not saying that america should become under sharia law. >> anderson, i understand exactly what you're saying. you need ask yourself the question why are all terrorists muslim? not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslim, and that's just pretty -- >> that's not completely true because, in fact, the guy who blew up the oklahoma city -- >> you'll use that one man, timothy mcveigh, you'll use that, but that's not his modus operandi. >> let me bring in the other guest. >> it's the modus operandi of
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islam from 6/22 to this day. >> there are increasing numbers of protest, not even the ground zero thing. that's a separate thing. can you say, look, it's near ground zero, a few blocks away. these are protests against mosques, mosques trying to expand or a mosque in murphysboro, tennessee. >> i don't feel like i'm qualified to speak about truth but i do think i can speak about the history of religion and what americans believe. for better or worse there's a correlation between violence and religion. if you took a room, all the religions in the world with no violence in the past in one side of the room and all the religion s in the world with violence in their past, one side of the room would be empty. i think what we have here, anderson, is a fairly simple choice. you can have open warfare among the religions or you can have co-existence and co-existence depends on dialogue, and i think what we're hearing now from reverend benham and people
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protesting the mosque, and he's been very open about it, is a war against the mosque. the ground zero is a separate thing. this is a larger war against islam, and i think the moment that we're in now is that anybody of any religious tradition who has ever been discriminated against, and guess what, that includes jews who were told they couldn't build synagogues. catholics who were told in this very spot 200 years ago they couldn't build churches, protestants. anybody who has ever been vulnerable at a time for their belief system is at risk in this controversy. >> reverend, i mean, the logical conclusion though of your -- of your thoughts, and i respect you for coming on and talking, you know, about your thoughts and that's what we try to do on this show is have an open dialogue with people with different points of view. the logical conclusion, do you believe islam should be outlawed in the united states? do you believe a muslim can be a good citizen in america? >> i think it would be impossible for a muslim to be a good citizen in america because he has to swear his allegiance to allah. >> so the 5.8 million muslims
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are not good sitence. >> they can't be if they swear their allegiance to sharia wife. you believe it's all right to beat your wife and believe it's all right to have four wives, that's fine. it's all right to cut the throats of people -- >> you are saying things about people's religious beliefs that are not true. >> what we're talking about here is on the opening night of ramadan going on cnn and disparaging a billion people in the planet. that's fine, okay? >> not the people. not the people. >> what do you mean, not the people? you've just said they can't be good people. >> the bondage of islam. islam is a lie from the pit of hell. it brings destruction and death. that's what it does. not the people. god loves those people. >> you've -- you've thrown your weapons out there, as i said, on the first night of ramadan. let me talk to you -- >> the weapons are the word of god. this word is the weapon. >> what i think is at stake here, i think there's two issues here.
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one is looking backwards and it's in 3,000 years of western religion there has been a contribution from the united states, okay, and that is that the government doesn't tell you when to pray, where to pray or even whether to pray. that is what's at stake here looking back is the idea that the government cannot go into your mosque and tell you where you can put it or where you can't. four in ten americans are in interfaith marriages. is he talking about going door to door and sitting down with people and saying i agree with your faith or not and then he'll slit your throat. and then there's looking forward. we live in a world where people of many faiths and we know we live in a global world of communications and the internet and trade and america's place in the world is dependant on the idea that we can exist and work and trade and do business and live alongside other people, and that is what's at stake here, so there's not a lot of people who are clearly going to march in the war that reverend benham is but a lot of people have doubts.
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my kids walk past a mosque to go to ballet practice and what those people have to understand is it's been a core american value and going forward it will be a core to america's leadership in the world with our ability to exist with people whom we may disagree with. >> we'll leave it there. reverend benham, appreciate your time and appreciate your time, bruce feilor. up next we'll speak with fareed zakaria to return to a war given to the anti-dev mass league and we'll speak to a girl who was told her dark skin is nasty. a look at how kids see race. if you think your kids don't see race at age 5, and it's shocking how kids see race, even at that age. be right back.
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talking about the outcry over that islamic center and mosque planned for lower manhattan near ground zero but also what appears to be the growing anti-mosque, anti-muslim in some cases bigotry across the country. earlier you heard congressman louie gohmert lay out a case against terror babies and there's a group planning to burn korans on 9/11 and one christian minister said islam is a lie, his words. we've seen the anti-defamation league whose mission statement proclaims opposition to tolerance of any religion come out against the downtown mosque.
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several years ago fareed zakaria was awarded its first amendment freedom prize. over the weekend he said he's returning it. we spoke earlier tonight. so the u.s. government is yet again sending this imam who is behind the ground zero mosque overseas to represent the united states and muslims in the united states and tell people around the world about what it's like being a muslim in the united states. now some representatives, republicans, say they shouldn't be sending this guy, should they? >> no, of course they should and it just points out the central error and flaw in the way people are looking at this. the united states has been searching for moderate muslims, particularly moderate muslim clergymen to send out to spread the idea of moderate islam and islam that is pluralistic and tolerant. >> they have been sending him out since 2007. >> he does fbi sensitivity training to teach the fbi how to detect extremist islam and how to detect, you know, which ones are moderate, so this is proof
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positive, if you will, that the guy is actually a moderate, that the u.s. government has found him to be moderate. >> but some republicans who i've talked to say look, you know, he has said on "60 minutes," he said that he seemed to be blaming the united states for -- in part for 9/11 or that he refuses to -- to renounce hamas. >> look, i don't want to defend his political views. they are not my political views. the stuff i've seen of his is pretty generic, you know, and i hate to put it this way left wing critiques of american foreign policy. the core issue about this guy is what does he think about islam you? know, what are his views on terrorism? what are his views on women's rights? what are his views on whether the koran should be interpreted liberally? whether you should be tolerant of other religions, and on all those issues he's time and time again come out squarely in the moderate or liberal camp. >> you now actually have returned to the anti-defamation league an award that they gave you several years ago.
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why did you return it? >> well, i'll tell you what happened, anderson. i was going to write a column on this issue, and i was going to write a column arguing that it was wrong for the united states in the united states for us to be discriminating against particular religions, treating these people as second class citizens. it was a violation of our first amendment principles, and i was looking across my office was this award that the idl had given me and it's called the hubert humphry first amendment freedoms award, and i thought it was something so hypocritical about an organization that was giving an award for the defense of the first amendment, which is an amendment that says congress shall not establish any religion in this country or favor any religion, to have taken the stand that it did. the adl came out and basically put its -- cast its weight on the side of those opposed to the mosque. >> right. they claim that they support the right to have an islamic center there, but because of the
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sensitivity that -- of the issue and the area that basically they are saying you should pay attention to the sensitivities of the 9/11 victims. >> right. i mean, to my mind there's a little bit of nit-picking there. they chose to weigh in on this issue, and they weighed in on the side of telling people the mosque, you know, was a bad idea. they chose to get involved in this, in my opinion, on the wrong side. look, the adl does very good work, and what i'm hoping that by returning the award and the money that came with it i send them a signal and make them think about what they are doing. >> now, on buses and some buses in new york there's going to be this ad that i think was originated by a white wing blogger. should these ads be on buses basically saying why there? it's just going to show a picture of one of the towers with the plane going toward it and it's going to show a picture on the other side. there it is, you know, of a building with an islamic symbol on it. >> sure it should run. i don't know what the mta's particular rules are, but my own
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view is freedom of expression means freedom of expression. if people want to buy ads saying whatever they want, that's fine. the politics of this are clear. most people are opposed to this. i understood that full well when i took the stand that i did, but american democracy, the glory of american democracy is that it is not just about what the majority thinks is right. the bill of rights is an anti-democratic document. the bill of rights says no matter what the majority thinks, these rights are sacrosanct, and the first of those rights, the first amendment, is about freedom of religion. >> fareed zakaria, appreciate it. thanks. >> pleasure. coming up next on the program, tracking a serial killer. he slashis his victims to death and loweures them with a plea f help and may hunt due to skin color. and also steven slater speaking out about his jetblue breakdown. hear what he says about it coming up in the program.
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want to tell you about new developments in the hunt for the escaped killer on the run from his girlfriend who also happens to be his cousin. john mccluskey and casslyn welch may have robbed a store.
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at the same time, the u.s. marshalls say the pair changed their appearance. you see the composite pictures. they say mccluskey died his hair black and there's a dark beard. welch may now have blond hair. two have broke out of an arizona prison last night and two have since been caught. mccluskey may be linked to a double murder last week in new mexico. there's a hunt for a serial killer who allegedly stabbis his victims to death and may be behind attacks in three states. he appears to be choosing his targets by skin color. the terror began in flint, michigan, and you'll see the serial killer often pretends to need help before striking without warning. joe johns reports. >> reporter: take a look at this car. it's a green trailblazer with light-colored trim and two big dents in the hood, license plate unknown. police say the guy behind the wheel of a car like this is a suspected serial killer. this video was recorded august 6th by a surveillance camera in leesburg, virginia, moments before one of the attacks.
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the police have surveillance video of what happens next but won't release it for now, but the police chief described for me the chain of events when the driver of the car approached a 19-year-old man on the parking lot. >> it looks like he's stalking our victim. quickly approaches him and the suspect gets out and asked the victim for some help with a faint mechanical problem. as the victim attempts to open the hood, the suspect swings what looks to be some type of a hammer type instrument at him. our victim is able to detect that in his peripheral vision, ducks and gets a glancing blow. >> reporter: police believe that since late may the same attacker has left a trail of carnage and violence from the great lakes region of mississippi and ohio where there were 17 attacks all the way down to the virginia suburbs of washington where three more attacks occurred last week. police say the first case in virginia happened near this intersection in leesburg, august 3rd, 9:30 at night.
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a teenager 15 years old out for an evening jog apparently never saw it coming. felt a pain in his back and reached around and felt the blood and saw a guy jump into his car and drive away. the teenager came to this gas station for help. the young man survived the attack but the victim's relatively small size led authorities to believe there are some similarities suggesting they are dealing with a serial killer. the suspect apparently chooses targets based on how small or how weak they seem to be or how kind hearted. some victims told police that like in leesburg a guy stopped them and asked them for help with car problems or directions before attacking them. >> i went to help him and he just started stabbing me with a big long nasty killing knife. >> reporter: that's another link. in every case the weapon of choice is either a hammer or a knife. this man who asked not to be identified is one of only two of the alleged killer's known targets who is white. 17 other victims are black. police describe another man as a
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dark-skinned hispanic. the killer is believed to be a white man which presents a loaded question. are these attacks motivated by some sort racial hatred? for the leesburg police chief the answer is yes. >> we have classified this as a hate crime. >> reporter: but authorities in flint, michigan, where the bulk of the attacks occurred aren't so sure. >> we aren't sure what's in the mind of this assailant. we have no idea why he's doing what he's doing. obviously there's something wrong with the individual snow don't have to tell that to the 20 known victims. >> yeah, ambassadorly something wrong with the guy. i know you talked to some criminal profilers about it, joe. what did they say? >> reporter: you know, the big question is this racially motivated and sort of a mixed opinion. there are a lot of people with different opinions. one of the people i talked to today said these guys really do not profile as to race. they call it a crime of opportunity. the person is there. it's a particular place, the kind of victim that the guy can
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stab say and get away, and that's the bottom line. they start doing it. they like it and then it becomes a drug and they can't stop until they are caught. >> so creepy. let's hope the guy is caught soon. still ahead, our followup on kids and reach. we'll catch up with 5-year-old brielle. her answers on a test about skin color led her parents to make big changes about how they talk about race, and if you think your child doesn't see skin color, watch this report because you'll be surprised by the results. the jetblue attendant, the actual meltdown? more on that coming up. waking up with morning pain drain the energy right out of you. fight it with (new) bayer am. it combines extra strength bayer aspirin to treat pain
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basic.? preferred. okay. at meineke i have options, and 50% off brake pads and shoes. my money. my choice. my meineke. tonight another followup on
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kids and race. months ago we asked a team of expert researchers to conduct a pilot study. they tested more than 130 kids in the north and the south united states and found substantial amounts of what researchers call white bias, basically associating positive qualities with light skin color and negative qualities with dark skin. they found that in white children and to a lesser degree but there in african-american kids as well. take a look at what 5-year-old brielle told me after she took the pilot test. when i asked about some of the results she had done in the test to show me which skin color she would like to have. >> you. >> why do you want that skin color? >> because it looks lighter than this kind because this looks a lot like that one. >> mm-hmm. >> and i just don't like the way brown looks cause the way brown looks, it looks really nasty for some reason, but i don't know what reason. that's all. >> so you think it looks nafty?
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>> well, not really, but sometimes. >> sometimes. and they asked what color adults don't like. do you remember what you said? which one? >> that's right. >> why do you think adults don't like that color? >> dark. >> dark. >> and adults -- you think adults don't like dark? >> well maybe some adults do, but maybe some of them don't. >> what brielle said and also in the pilot study was a wake-up call for parents to try to change the way they talk about race at home. soledad o'brien caught up with brielle's family. >> reporter: this is brielle today. her parents changed on changing her self-perception, shocked by her answers. >> it made me feel like, wow, what are we doing wrong, and we thought of some of the experiences that she has had where she has noticed her skin
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color at an early age, and we thought that it was affecting her a certain way, but we didn't realize that she realized it. >> reporter: her perception was that a lot of time the golden hair or the lighter skin kids got to be on line first for whatever. there was one incident in the way that they cast even the christmas play. >> light-skinned kids were the stars? >> right. >> but the part that she got was the one that nobody would have possibly wanted. >> what did she play? >> a donkey. could have been a sheep, could have been any other barn animal, you know, but she ended up being the donkey. >> and she knew at age 3 that that was not the animal to be. >> sure. and messages similar to those i think at 3 years old, those are things that you actually do remember i believe in the subconscious. ♪
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>> reporter: for brielle's parents, counteracting those messages for her and her sister brianna are now a priority. >> they are the most beautiful girls in the world as far as i'm concerned and they need to know that. i need for them to know that. good job. i've tried to find ways to link that physical beauty, you know, skin tone, your pretty hair, your pretty eyes, whatever it is, to the beauty. i'm not speaking of beauty that is just because of what's inside. you're beautiful on the outside as well. >> reporter: brielle's answers got a strong reaction from family, friends and parishoners at church. did someone say what are you teaching this child? >> no. they were shocked at her answer, but it wasn't like a negative thing. a lot of people who spoke to me, they stuck up for her. they said what do you expect? look at society. when you get married, what do you wear? you wear white. when the bad guy goes to rob a bank or a store, he puts on
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what, he puts on black, so what are the messages? >> reporter: beyond looking at what their daughters see and hear from the world, byron and letisha are looking inward. what advice would you give other parents who say i don't know what to say to my kid? >> honestly i would say the first level is -- is within. it's hard to have a conversation about acceptance or even about having healthy pride in your own race when there are some very real predispositions within one self. if i'm uncomfortable around white people, it's going to be hard for me to show my daughter to be comfortable, so make sure that we're doing all we can to adjust our own mindsets into one that really sees the equality of people and not just in speech,
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in reality. >> reporter: soledad o'brien, cnn, new york. >> one family's reaction. we'll have more tomorrow night on the program about the pilot studies. we're following several other stories. brianna keilar joins us with the "360" news and business bulletin. we begin with the very close runoff for the gubernatorial race in georgia. today the white house said nathan deal may face aentics investigation over his birther-related comments. it was a rough day on wall street. the dow tumbled 265 points to close at 10,378. the nasdaq sank 68 points. the selloff coming after a immediately report after widening the u.s. trade gap and jetblue is giving $100 vouchers to every passenger who flew with flight attendant steven slater
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on monday when he had his infamous meltdown. slater is now facing criminal charges after his explosive rant over the plane's intercom. then you may recall he deployed the emergency slide and fled with beers. he's got a huge following now and we talked about that -- he talked about that on our affiliate wabc. take a listen. what do you have to say to all the people who say you're a hero? >> oh, it's so encouraging and so special. there's some really great people out there and i'm getting a glimpse of that. it's been a surprise because obviously i've been away for a little while so to come back to that -- >> what about your mom? your mom was so sweet. >> she's a wonderful woman. >> she said you may have had just a little breakdown. >> i can't go there right now. >> can't go there right now. >> i like how he said he had been away for a little while, being in jail and even though we don't have video, brianna, and probably won't have video from on the plane unless someone had a cell phone cameras, we do have the simulation magically courtesy of next media
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animation. i think it's from taiwan. they kind of animated the whole event, him grabbing the beer and then allegedly, you know, putting the slide down and taking it off and then watch this at the end. i think he opens up the bottom of the slide. that's one of the many questions i would like to ask him. >> i'm wondering, too, you know, these passengers got $100 vouchers. >> right. >> i suppose it would have been in poor taste to just give them free beer. >> probably so. >> thanks for being on. serious stuff at the top of the hour. holding lawmakers accountable raising claims that women are having babies here, second them back to raise them as terrorists and then coming back to attack us. we talk to a member of the fbi to see if that's a thought. hey, smart, we could stay here foence. i'm a member of this hotel's loyalty program. well, how far away is it? okay, we take a train 40 miles to a dude ranch
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>> texas politicians claiming illegal immigrants are raising terror babies. getting their kids citizenship so they can one day return here and attack us. two texas lawmakers say it's happening and said they heard it from ex-fbi agents. tonight we're keeping them honest, asking for evidence and talking directly to the fbi. also tonight, the ground zero mosque battle and beyond. protesters say don't build it near hallowed ground, but as you'll see, there's growing pressure all across the country not to build any mosque anywhere. what's happening to freedom of religion in this country? we'll talk to a christian minister who leads protests outside mosques, plus, crime and punishment. the search for a serial killer who police say is targeting his victims by skin color and luring them to their doom by pretending he needs help. new developments in the manhunt tonight. and we'll take you up close
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later to see how kids see raise. it's an eye opening and sometimes heartbreaking followup to our pilot study. we'll talk to one little girl who says her own skin color is nasty and how her parents are dealing with that revelation. we begin with keeping them honest. as we always do, on one of the most stunning claims made in the battle over illegal immigration. the claim made by texas republican lawmakers that illegal immigrants are having buffalo sabres here and raising them overseas as terrorist so that they can return here 20 years from now and attack us. call it the terror baby conspiracy. in a moment, you'll hear from a former high-ranking fbi official about this idea, but first let's just show you where we think this thing started. this is congressman gohmert, and here is what he said on the floor of the united states congress. >> i talked to a retired fbi agent who said that one of the things that we're looking at were terror cells overseas who had figured out how to game our system, and it appeared they would have young women who
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became pregnant, would get them into the united states to have a baby. they wouldn't even have to pay anything for the baby, and then they would return back where they could be raised and coddled as future terrorists, and then one day 20, 30 years down the road, they could be sent in to help destroy our way of life because they figured out how stupid we are being in this country. >> he said that on the floor of the house, congressman gohmert said the source was a former fbi agent. he offered no proof, no evidence, and later changed some of the details in the story actually and went on tv and said he first learned this from a hamas-loving grandmother he met on a plane in the middle east. today we called the congressman's office to ask for information backing up the claim, the name of the former fbi agent, for instance, or any evidence whatsoever that this actually is happening or something the fbi is looking into, as he claimed the former fbi agent said. we also invited him on the program.
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his press secretary told us he was unavailable, and could not be reached for comment. the invitation stands. he's not the only texas lawmaker, though, making this argument. we were surprised last night on "360" when republican state representative debbie riddle came on the program to debate the topic of immigration in general and talked about, basically, the exact same thing. she was joined by one of her colleagues on the democratic side who didn't believe it, but take a look at what she said about the terror baby idea. representative riddle, you told my producer that pregnant women are coming here and having babies and going back home with a nefarious purpose of turning them into terrorists who will later come back to the u.s. to cause us harm. you said it's part of an organized terror element and could cost us lives. where did you hear that? >> that is information that is coming to my office from former fbi officials. >> what former fbi officials? what sort of evidence is there
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to have american babies born here and then raised as terrorists overseas and then come back here? >> well, at this point i don't have the hard evidence right here in front of me. however, this is something that is being talked about by various members of congress. this is being looked into. this is an issue with not only folks coming across our southern border, with what is called anchor babies and coming over for the entitlement programs, and for that sort of thing, but i think this is a lot more sinister issue. all of these issues we need to look at because this is a critical, critical issue for all of the american public. >> but you have no actual evidence. >> other than that coming from former fbi folks. >> can you tell us who these former fbi folks are, what evidence they have or what evidence they have shown you? >> at this point i'm not going to reveal that.
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>> i mean, if this is a real threat to the security of the united states, why wouldn't current fbi people be worried about it as well? i mean, why wouldn't this actually be -- >> you know what? that is a really good question, because right now we have serious current threat that the government seems to be ignoring, and ignoring on our southern border. >> but they haven't told you any actual evidence, right? so it's -- you say some former fbi agents have talked to your office. have they given your office actual facts or proof? >> that information we are still gathering. >> i mean, you've made statements about these basically terror babies being raised overseas to be brought back here. i'm just asking for proof. you say you -- you are still gathering it from -- from unnamed former fbi people. >> well, actually when your folks called me in the preliminary, that was part of the conversation. they did not tell me that you
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were going to grill me for the specific information that i was not ready to give to you tonight. they did not tell me that, sir. >> okay. well, if you do have follow-up information, we'd love to get it. >> i don't really consider that a grilling, by the way. i thought that was more of a conversation. when someone gets grilled, they tend to know it. again, no proof offered. keeping them honest. we called representative riddle's office today for more information on her claims or any shred of evidence. we were told someone from riddle's staff would call us back. they have not. of course, we welcome the call any time in the future. you may think that politicians who are concerned about this over national security, as i'm sure they are and say they are being tipped off by former fbi agents, you would think that they would actually contact the fbi to check on this. apparently they have not, because we did check with the fbi today, and they completely knocked the claim down. an official told us the agency does not have any credible evidence that this is happening. so, all right then. we thought, well maybe, maybe they just don't want to tell us
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because they are currently fbi officials, and since this information is allegedly coming from former fbi agents we should be checking with them, and that we're happy to say has worked out pretty well because cnn contributor tom fuentes is the former director of international operations from 2004 to 2008. he joins me now. tom, you oversaw fbi offices in some of the biggest terror hot spots. have you ever come across any evidence of these terror babies or anything like this? >> no, anderson, never. that includes the fbi has 75 offices overseas, including offices in jordan, turkey, israel, saudi arabia, yemen, pakistan. there was never a credible report or any report, for that matter, coming across through all the various mechanisms of communication to indicate that there was such a plan for these terror babies to be born. also, i'd like to add, there seems to be a lot of former fbi agents lurking in the halls of
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congress and in the legislature in the state of texas, so i'm kind of curious about that issue as well. >> yeah. i mean, is there any likelihood that this could actually have happened? does it make any sense whatsoever, the idea that 20 years from now they have some sort of plan to get kids in? i mean, frankly, it's not that hard to get u.s. citizens to attack the united states, it appears. >> that's exactly right. it's not hard to get u.s. citizens. not only that, director muller has spoken out many times publicly against the visa waiver program which means that anyone holding a european passport can come to the united states. they are six hours away by air from new york or washington and do not require a u.s. visa, so they not only can recruit u.s. citizens as we've seen in plot after plot or people that are already in the united states like zazi, shahzad, the times square bomber, many of the other groups, abdulmutallab who came
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here on a u.s. visa from nigeria, but also any of these european radicalized terrorists can fly here without a visa any time, so the idea that they would somehow grow terrorist babies from the ground up is ludicrous. not only that, but i think you'd have the fbi pushing to create some type of a no pre-school list or something to address these terrible babies. >> no pre-school list, yeah. do you think if a member of congress is really -- really believes this, you would assume that they would call the fbi. if a member of congress called the fbi with this theory saying they had heard this from a former fbi agent, would the fbi inform that congress person that they knew nothing about it or they don't think there's any legitimacy to that? >> i think so. in this case i think the fbi has knocked this story down completely, officially, unofficially. i think at first they didn't want to comment on it just because they didn't want to lend any credence to the people spreading it, but realized that there has to be some comment or
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else the no comment, you know, means there might be some secret classified information out there, but there is no credible information about this particular aspect, and something else i caught in your interview of debbie riddle where she says a former fbi agent informed her office. what does that mean? they talked to a receptionist? they talked to a janitor? you don't talk to an office. if an fbi agent was going to brief someone that's a public official about a sensitive matter of potential terrorism, they will not talk to anybody but the elected official himself or herself. just that statement that somehow this was reported to the office, you know, is suspicious to me. >> the other thing that she says is that she's still gathering information, that her office is still gathering information on the facts behind it. you would think the first place they would gather information was at the actual fbi, and as you said, if they actually do call the fbi, they would be told this is absolutely completely
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not true so -- >> last i checked the fbi is in the phone book, so i think she could get ahold of them. >> hopefully they will call the fbi if they are not willing to call us. tom fuentes, appreciate your expertise. thanks. >> sure, anderson. >> let us know what you think about the whole idea. join the live chat at ac360.com. up next the kind of birth tourism that we know is happening because we met one of the families involved in it. we'll see who is really coming into this country to have kids and why. and then the controversy over the proposed mosque not only at ground zero but at many mosques across the country. i'm going to work with kids.
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starting at $14.99, -so you're thinking...? i agree. preferred. only meineke has options... and now 50% off brake pads and shoes. my money. my choice. my meineke. lawmakers to change the 14'd up close tonight we've been reporting on the calls from some lawmakers to change the 14th amendment which grants automatic citizenship to anyone born in the united states, including the
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kids of illegal immigrants. according to new analysis by the pew hispanic center, an estimated 340,000 of the more than 4 million babies born in the united states in 2008 were the offspring of unauthorized immigrants. no accurate figures on how many illegal immigrants come here pregnant or with the intention of giving birth. studies indicate it's probably a small percentage, but we've also learned about women who come here legally on tourist visas for the express purpose of giving birth. the family you're about to meet freely admits that's exactly what they did. and they say they would do it again. here's gary tuchman. >> hi. >> reporter: but the looks of them, you would never know this mother and son are at the heart of a national debate. they have both lived in mexico their whole lives, but while 26-year-old lupita and her husband are mexican citizens, 3-year-old hector is a u.s. citizen. >> translator: i made a decision to have my child born in the united states. i wanted him to have dual citizenship so one day if he moves to the united states he will not have any problems. >> reporter: lupita, who did not want her last name used, is well
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aware of the u.s. constitution's 14th amendment which declares all persons born in the u.s. are citizens, and she admits she came to texas on a tourist visa while pregnant specifically to give birth to a u.s. citizen. >> translator: one day we might have to immigrate to the united states, and i would like my child to be able to take full advantage of his rights and be able to stay in the united states. >> reporter: hector was born at this public hospital in fort worth where officials tell us an average of 70% of births are to undocumented mothers, 70%. immigration attorneys say the 14th amendment is very well known to legal and illegal visitors alike. >> a lot of people sacrifice themselves and say okay, at least my child, if they are born in the united states, is almost guaranteed a better life than mine. >> reporter: lupita's 3-year-old son may never permanently live in the united states. officially though he's as american as any american
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citizen, but notably u.s. immigration officials are permitted to stop pregnant women from entering the country if they feel they are coming here just to have a baby. did you tell the border people i'm here to have a baby? would you have told them that, or would you have been afraid to say that? >> translator: i only told my family. i did not tell the immigration officer. i hid my appearance to get my entry permit into the united states. >> reporter: hector and his mother are in fort worth this week to visit extended family. she's using the same tourist visa that was in effect when she gave birth to hector. the 14th amendment, she believes, guarantees all children are equal. some day would you like your son maybe to help you become a u.s. citizen? he'll be able to do that when he's an adult. >> translator: well, yes. i don't know what's going to happen in the future, but if we're doing badly in mexico and we have to emigrate, why not. >> reporter: lupita hopes to
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have another child, and says she'll likely do it the same way, as long as she still has the 14th amendment to rely on. gary tuchman, cnn, fort worth, texas. >> from who is an american, the 14th amendment to freedom of speech, the 1st amendment. up next outcry near ground zero and hundreds of other mosques hundreds of miles away. we'll talk to a man who leads protests outside mosques and a best selling author on religion, bruce feiler. later crime and punishment. new developments in a search for serial killers were victims in at least three states. we'll show you what to look out for, a police sketch and details that may help. we'll be right back. stom fit orc that's best for your feet. and footcare scientists are behind it. you'll get immediate comfort... ... and, you could save a couple hundred bucks. for locations see drscholls.com that's why every new toyota comes with the star safety system standard. it's is a combination of five accident avoidance technologies. the star safety system is something that's standard
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well, the battle over that islamic center and mosque several blocks from ground zero in new york picked up pace
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today. come on over here to the wall. i want to show you a new billboard soon appearing on buses in new york. a conservative blogger apparently came up with the idea as a private group supporting it. on the left, a picture of one of the twin towers with the plane about to hit it. on the right over here, this is an image of the proposed islamic center, islamic symbol there and the big question why there? ask why have an islamic center, a mosque, so close to ground zero. the bus service originally refused to put the signs up, but they announced today that they would be appearing on buses in new york very soon. just to give you, again, a sense of where this site is. two blocks away from the old world trade center site. park 51 is what they are calling this site, not too far away from another mosque that's been in the neighborhood since 1970. today the planners turned down an offer from new york's governor of state property elsewhere to build an islamic center. another development as well. we learned today that the imam who will be head of this center is being sent by the united states state department overseas
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to talk to muslims overseas about muslim life here in america, so the -- the u.s. government may not have any doubts about this imam, but apparently a lot of other people do. clearly american people not so sure. new polling tonight, 68% oppose putting the center and mosque near ground zero. just 29% favor it. we're going to talk with fareed zakaria about the controversy coming up. but first, opposition not to just this mosque in particular but to any mosque anywhere in america. take a look at some of the images we've been seeing now over the last couple of weeks. staten island, new york, a local catholic church rejected plans to sell a vacant convent to a muslim group after outcries there. there were demonstrations there. here, temuculah, california, members of a local tea party group picking a mosque that is seeking to build a new worship center on a nearby vacant lot. this is murphysboro, tennessee, protesters marching against a muslim center after a local political candidate accused of it secretly pursuing a radical agenda. some protesters saying islam is
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not a religion but just an ideology. in gainesville, a local church group picketing a mosque and they have a public koran burning on september 11th. also in bridgeport, connecticut, a demonstration, one of the demonstrators here at a local mosque. the local mosque is asking for protection. ramadan, after a texas-based group called operation save america protested there saying islam is a lie. in a moment we'll talk to the leader of the connecticut protest about why he was protesting at this mosque. all of the groups' right to protest islam, of course, is protected in the u.s. constitution, the bill of rights, freedom of speech, but so is the right of muslims to pray and express their faith, freedom of religion. here it is, of course, just in case we need to be reminded. first amendment, congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof or abridging the freedom of speech. it's not this religion or that religion or just christian faiths or popular faiths, it says religions, piers, and continues or abridging the
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freedom of speech, period. not just the speech a majority can agree on, not just the speech that's popular. that's the point. in the first amendment protected the popular and non-controversial we wouldn't need a first amendment in the first place. let's find out what's behind some of these protests around the country. with us now, the reverand flip benham, president of operation save america and best selling author bruce feiler whose works include "america's prophet" and "walking the bible." i understand you don't like islam. their beliefs are against your beliefs, but in this country doesn't everybody has the right to worship and hold the religion religious believes that they want? >> i don't think there's any question about that, but what we do have is a battle over truth. islam says that jesus didn't die on a cross. islam says that jesus wasn't raised from the dead. islam says that jesus isn't god. we have a diametrical problem here. islam is a lie from the pit of
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hell, and we need to be able to speak that truth from the corners and the streets and the highways and byways. >> no one is contesting your right to speak the truth, what you believe is the truth, but why protest a mosque in connecticut that hasn't done anything wrong? there's not some terror plot that you've uncovered. >> i understand exactly what you're talking about, and what's the problem with us not -- we're not protesting anything. we're proclaiming the truth, that jesus christ is the way, the truth and the life and no one comes to the father but by him. >> would it be all right did if muslims came to your house of worship and yelled at you and said you were promoting a lie and all sorts of things? >> they came to my country and smashed into the trade towers and killed almost 3,000 people. they crashed into the pentagon building. >> you see it as extreme and terrorists. i'm asking. do you see a difference? >> islam is not just -- >> i'm asking, do you see a difference. >> islam is not a religion.
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>> you won't say whether you see a difference. >> yes, i will, if you let me. the problem is that islam is not just a religion. it is a political ideology that demands and forces its dogma down our throat. >> not for all muslims. let me point out. not for all muslims. there are some extremists muslims who do believe -- political islam is a political ideology >> let me say i'm talking about islam. >> american citizens here are not saying that america should become under sharia law. >> anderson, i understand exactly what you're saying. you need to ask yourself the question why are all terrorists muslim? not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslim, and that's just pretty much a fact >> that's not completely true because, in fact, the guy who blew up the oklahoma city -- >> you'll use that one man, timothy mcveigh, you'll use that, but that's not his modus operandi. >> let me bring in the other guest. >> it's the modus operandi of islam from 622 to this day. >> there are increasing numbers
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of protests. not even the ground zero thing. that's a separate thing. can you say, look, it's near ground zero, a few blocks away. these are protests against mosques, mosques trying to expand or a mosque in murphysboro, tennessee. >> like reverend benham i don't feel like i'm qualified to speak about truth and god but i do think i can speak about the history of religion and what americans believe. for better or worse there's a correlation between violence and religion. if you took a room, all the religions in the world with no violence in the past in one side of the room and all the religions in the world with violence in their past, guess what, one side of the room would be empty. 50 million europeans were killed, christians fighting among christians. i think what we have here, anderson, is a fairly simple choice. you can have open warfare among the religions or you can have co-existence and co-existence depends on dialogue, and i think what we're hearing now from reverend benham and people now protesting these mosques, and he's been very open about it, is a war against the mosque.
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the ground zero is one small thing. this is a larger war against islam, and i think the moment that we're in now is that anybody of any religious tradition who has ever been discriminated against, and guess what, that includes all religions, that includes jews who were told they couldn't build synagogues. catholics who were told in this very spot 200 years ago they couldn't build churches, protestants. anybody who has ever been vulnerable at a time for their belief system is at risk in this controversy. >> reverend, i mean, the logical conclusion though of your -- of your thoughts, and i respect you for coming on and talking, you know, about your thoughts and that's what we try to do on this show is have an open dialogue with people with different points of view. the logical conclusion seems to be, do you believe islam should be outlawed in the united states? do you believe a muslim can be a good citizen in america? >> i think it would be impossible for a muslim to be a good citizen in america because he must swear his allegiance to all allah. >> so the 5.8 million muslims
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are not good citizens. >> they can't be if they swear their allegiance to sharia law, unless you believe it's all right to beat your wife and unless you believe it's all right to have four wives. that's fine. >> you're making gross generalizations about people's religious beliefs that are just not true. >> what we're talking about here is on the opening night of ramadan going on cnn and disparaging a billion people in the planet. that's fine, okay? >> not the people. not the people. >> what do you mean, not the people? you've just said they can't be good citizens. you said more than 8 million people -- >> the bondage of islam. islam is a lie from the pit of hell. it brings destruction and death. that's what it does. not the people. god loves those people. >> you've -- you've thrown your weapons out there, as i said, on the first night of ramadan. let me talk to you about what i think is at stake. >> let him respond. >> the weapons are the word of god. this word is the weapon. >> what i think is at stake here, i think there's two issues here. one is looking backwards and it's in 3,000 years of western
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religion there has been a contribution from the united states, okay, and that is that the government doesn't tell you when to pray, where to pray or even whether to pray. that is what's at stake here looking back is the idea that the government cannot go into your mosque and tell you where you can put it or where you can't. 4xor four in ten americans are in interfaith marriages. is he talking about going door to door and sitting down with people and saying i agree with your faith or not and then he'll slit your throat. and then there's looking forward. we live in a world of people of many faiths, and we know we live in a global world of communications and the internet and trade and america's place in the world is dependant on the idea that we can exist and work and trade and do business and live alongside other people, and that is what's at stake here, so there's not a lot of people who are clearly going to march in the war that reverend benham is talking about, though a lot of people do have doubts. my kids walk past a mosque to go
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to ballet practice, and what those people have to understand is it's been a core american value and going forward it will be a core to america's leadership in the world with our ability to exist with people whom we may disagree with. >> we'll leave it there. reverend benham, appreciate your time tonight and bruce feiler, appreciate you being up as well. up next we'll speak with fareed zakaria to return an award given to him by the anti-defamation league because of their opposition to the islamic center and mosque and also tonight we'll meet a 5-year-old african-american girl who told me she thought her dark skin is nasty. she was part of a pilot study. a look at how kids see race. if you think your kids don't see race at age 5, and it's shocking kids white and black, have their minds already made up even at that age. we'll be right back.
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when you use your card and enjoy a free night stay. so, before you know it, work time becomes well-deserved downtime. apply now at marriott.com/freenightstay. you've got staying power. be right back. talking about the outcry over that islamic center and mosque planned for lower manhattan near ground zero, but also what appears to be the growing anti-mosque, anti-muslim in some cases bigotry across the country. earlier you heard congressman louie gohmert lay out a conspiracy case against terror babies, and there's a group planning to burn korans on 9/11 and one christian minister said islam is a lie, his words. we've seen the anti-defamation league whose mission statement proclaims opposition to tolerance of any religion come out against the downtown mosque.
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several years ago fareed zakaria was awarded the adl first amendment freedom prize. over the weekend he said he's returning it. we spoke earlier tonight. so the u.s. government is yet again sending this imam who is behind the ground zero mosque overseas to represent the united states and muslims in the united states and tell people around the world about what it's like being a muslim in the united states. now some representatives, republicans, say they shouldn't be sending this guy, should they? >> no, of course they should, and it just points out the central error and flaw in the way people are looking at this. the united states has been searching for moderate muslims, particularly moderate muslim clergymen to send out, to spread the idea of moderate islam and islam that is pluralistic and tolerant. they found this guy. this was years before. >> they have been sending him out since 2007. >> right. he does fbi sensitivity training to teach the fbi how to detect extremist islam and how to detect, you know, which ones are moderate, so this is proof positive, if you will, that the guy is actually a moderate, that
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the u.s. government has found him to be moderate. >> but some republicans who i've talked to say look, you know, he has said on "60 minutes," he said that he seemed to be blaming the united states for -- in part for 9/11 or that he refuses to -- to renounce hamas. >> look, i don't want to defend his political views. they are not my political views. the stuff i've seen of his is pretty generic, you know, and i hate to put it this way but left wing critiques of american foreign policy. the core issue about this guy is what does he think about islam you know? what are his views on terrorism? what are his views on women's rights? what are his views on whether the koran should be interpreted liberally? whether you should be tolerant of other religions, and on all those issues he's time and time again come out squarely in the moderate or liberal camp. >> you actually have now returned to the anti-defamation league an award that they gave you several years ago. why did you return it? >> well, i'll tell you what happened, anderson.
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i was going to write a column on this issue, and i was going to write a column arguing that it was wrong for the united states in the united states for us to be discriminating against particular religions, treating these people as second class citizens. it was a violation of our first amendment principles, and i was looking across my office was this award that the adl had given me and it's called the hubert humphry first amendment freedoms award, and i thought it was something so hypocritical about an organization that was giving an award for the defense of the first amendment, which is an amendment that says congress shall not establish any religion in this country or favor any religion, to have taken the stand that it did. the adl came out and basically put its -- cast its weight on the side of those opposed to the mosque. >> right. they claim that they support the right to have an islamic center there, but because of the sensitivity that -- of the issue
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and the area that basically they are saying you should pay attention to the sensitivities of the 9/11 victims. >> right. i mean, to my mind there's a little bit of nit-picking there. they chose to weigh in on this issue, and they weighed in on the side of telling people the mosque, you know, was a bad idea. they chose to get involved in this, in my opinion, on the wrong side. look, the adl does very good work, and what i'm hoping that by returning the award and the money that came with it, i send them a signal and make them think about what they are doing. >> now, on buses and some buses in new york there's going to be this ad that i think was originated by a right wing blogger. should these ads be on buses basically saying why there? it's just going to show a picture of one of the towers with the plane going toward it, and it's going to show a picture on the other side. there it is, you know, of a building with an islamic symbol on it. >> sure it should run. i don't know what the mta's particular rules are, but my own view is freedom of expression means freedom of expression. if people want to buy ads saying
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whatever they want, that's fine. the politics of this are clear. most people are opposed to this. i understood that full well when i took the stand that i did, but american democracy, the glory of american democracy is that it is not just about what the majority thinks is right. the bill of rights is an anti-democratic document. the bill of rights says no matter what the majority thinks, these rights are sacrosanct, and the first of those rights, the first amendment, is about freedom of religion. >> fareed zakaria, appreciate it. thanks. >> plesh ear, anderson. coming up next on the program, tracking a serial killer. he slashes his victims to death and lures them with a plea for help, and he may be motivated by skin color. the latest on the manhunt to find him. by. you're checking out my awesome headband, when... ♪ oops. that's when you find out your cut-rate insurance it ain't payin' for this. so get allstate.
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want to tell you about now developments in the hunt for the escaped killer on the run with his girlfriend, the one who also happens to be his cousin. earlier reports said john mccluskey and casslyn welch may have robbed a store in arkansas. officials say it's unlikely that the fugitives were involved. they appear to have changed their picture. it's reported mccluskey dyed his hair black and has a beard and welch has blond hair and may have lost weight. mccluskey and two other inmates broke out of an arizona prison last month. the other two have since been called. mccluskey may also be linked to a double murder last week in new mexico. there's a hunt for a serial killer who allegedly stabs his victims to death and may be behind attacks in three states. he appears to be choosing his targets by skin color. the terror began in flint, michigan, and you'll see the serial killer often pretends to need help before striking without warning. joe johns reports. >> reporter: take a look at this car. it's a green trailblazer with
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light-colored trim and two big dents in the hood, license plate unknown. police say the guy behind the wheel of a car like this is a suspected serial killer. this video was recorded august 6th by a surveillance camera in leesburg, virginia, moments before one of the attacks. the police have surveillance video of what happens next but won't release it for now, but the police chief described for me the chain of events when the driver of the car approached a 19-year-old man on the parking lot. >> it looks like he's stalking our victim. he quickly approaches him. the suspect gets out, asks the victim for some help with a faint mechanical problem. as the victim attempts to open the hood, the suspect swings what looks to be some type of a hammer type instrument at him. our victim is able to detect that in his peripheral vision, ducks and gets a glancing blow. >> reporter: police believe that since late may the same attacker has left a trail of carnage and violence from the great lakes
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region of michigan and ohio where there were 17 attacks all the way down to the virginia suburbs of washington where three more attacks occurred last week. police say the first case in virginia happened near this intersection in leesburg, august 3rd, 9:30 at night. a teenager 15 years old out for an evening jog apparently never even saw it coming. he felt a pain in his back, reach around and felt the blood and saw a guy jump into his car and drive away. the teenager came to this gas station for help. the young man survived the attack, but the victim's relatively small size led authorities to believe there are some similarities suggesting they are dealing with a serial killer. the suspect apparently chooses targets based on how small or weak they seem to be or how kind-hearted. some victims told police that like in leesburg a guy stopped them and asked them for help with car problems or directions before attacking them. >> i went to help him, and he just started stabbing me with a
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big long nasty killing knife. >> reporter: that's another possible link. in every case the attacker's we oven choice is either a hammer or a knife. this man who asked not to be identified is one of only two of the alleged killer's known targets who is white. 17 other victims are black. police describe another man as a dark-skinned hispanic. the killer is believed to be a white man which presents a loaded question. are these attacks motivated by some sort of racial hatred? for the leesburg police chief the answer is yes. >> we have classified this as a hate crime. >> reporter: but authorities in flint, michigan, where the bulk of the attacks occurred, aren't so sure. >> we don't know what's in the mind of this assailant. we have no idea why he's doing what he's doing. obviously there's something wrong with the individual. >> you don't have to tell that to the 20 known victims. joe johns, cnn, leesburg, virginia. >> still ahead, a cheaper, better, greener brick and how it's helping to educate kids.
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kids and race. months ago we asked a team of expert researchers to conduct a pilot study. they tested more than 130 kids and found substantial amounts of what researchers call white-baswhite-bas
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bias, basically associating positive qualities with light skin color and negative qualities with dark skin. they found that in white children and to a lesser degree but there in african-american kids as well. take a look at what 5-year-old brielle told me after she took the pilot test. when i asked about some of the results she had done in the test to show me which skin color she would like to have. >> you. >> why do you want that skin color? >> because it looks lighter than this kind because this looks a lot like that one. >> mm-hmm. >> and i just don't like the way brown looks cause the way brown looks, it looks really nasty for some reason, but i don't know what reason. that's all. >> so you think it looks nasty? >> well, not really, but sometimes. >> sometimes. and they asked what color adults don't like. do you remember what you said? which one? that's right. why do you think adults don't like that color? >> dark. >> dark. >> and adults -- you think adults don't like dark? >> well, maybe some adults do, but maybe some of them don't. >> what brielle said and also in
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the pilot study was a wake-up call tore her parents to try to change the way they talk about race at home. soledad o'brien caught up with breel's family recently. >> reporter: this is brielle today. her parents, byron and letisha, focused on changing herse self-perception, shocked by her answers. >> it made me feel like, wow, what are we doing wrong, and we thought of some of the experiences that she has had where she has noticed her skin color at an early age, and we thought that it was affecting her a certain way, but we didn't realize that she realized it. >> reporter: her perception was that a lot of time the golden hair or the lighter skin kids got to be on line first for whatever. there was one incident in the way that they cast even the christmas play. >> light-skinned kids were the stars? >> right. >> but the part that she got was
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the one that nobody would have possibly wanted. >> what did she play? >> a donkey. could have been a sheep, could have been any other barn animal, you know, but she ended up being the donkey. >> and she knew at age 3 that that was not the animal to be. >> sure. and messages similar to those i think at 3 years old, those are things that you actually do remember i believe in the subconscious. ♪ >> reporter: for brielle's parents, counteracting those messages for her and her sister brianna is now, more than ever, a priority. >> they are the most beautiful girls in the world as far as i'm concerned, and they need to know that. i need for them to know that. good job. i've tried to find ways to link that physical beauty, you know, skin tone, your pretty hair, your pretty eyes, whatever it is, to the beauty. i'm not speaking of beauty that is just because of what's inside.
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you're beautiful on the outside as well. >> reporter: brielle's answers got a strong reaction from family, friends and parishoners at church. did someone say what are you teaching this child? >> no. they were shocked at her answer, but it wasn't like a negative thing. a lot of people who spoke to me, they stuck up for her. they said, well, what do you expect? look at society. when you get married, what do you wear? you wear white. when the bad guy goes to rob a bank or a store, he puts on what, he puts on black, so what are the messages? ♪ >> reporter: beyond looking at what their daughters see and hear from the world, byron and letisha are looking inward. what advice would you give other parents who say i don't know what to say to my kid? >> honestly, i would say the first level is -- is within. it's hard to have a conversation about acceptance or even about
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having healthy pride in your own race when there are some very real predispositions within one's self. if i'm uncomfortable around white people, it's going to be hard for me to show my daughter to be comfortable, so make sure that we're doing all we can to adjust our own mindsets into one that really sees the equality of people and not just in speech, in reality. >> reporter: soledad o'brien, cnn, new york. >> one family's reaction. we'll have more tomorrow night on the program about the pilot studies. in tonight's one simple thing report. saving trees and electricity while building much-needed schools faster. it's happening in madagascar and the key, if you can believe it or not, is a better brick. here's ben wedeman. >> reporter: it may look like just another brick in the wall, but these are bricks with a
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difference. they are being used to build a new classroom for a rural school outside madagascar's capital, a project run by the u.n. children's fund unicef and madagascar's ministry of education. the local community lends a hand, hauling the bricks, doing the hard work, sharing advice and suggestions with the these bricks on the other hand pr

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